tips for small boat game fishing

[garth]

Hey fellas,

Can anyone give some advice on small boat game fishing?

species - marlin, mahi + tuna

hoping to get a 15 ft cc with 60hp with adequate safety gear on the water by summer.

can i target those species close in? how far offshore? i guess that largely depends on the currents at the time.

also, is it true that the shelf is really close to the shore around diamond head way?

never caught any of those species.

pretty amped for a mahi mahi though, they look awsome.

do you think it's likely for beginners to catch any marlin their first season?

Cheers

[garth]

forgot to mention that in terms of "tips" i mean

- locations
- range out to sea
- lures trolling speeds
-how prevalent are fish traps out there?

etc

as you can see i no bugger all but keen to learn

[Dog Catcher]

You're kidding me garth ???


I gemerally shoot guys wanting to go out to sea in boats your size that quick it ain't funny.

For starters the species you're asking about appear in that time of the year when here off sydney we get the worst weather & you want to go out to sea in a bloody 15ft center consol ??????????

I dont take my little timmy same size as your's out of the bay cause I know to well how quick the weather can change out there.

Another thing you hook up even a small marlin out of that thing & get it to the boat leader man /gaff man both to one side in any sort of sea & you'll SH*T Yourselves

And on top of all that I dont even know weather your boat has got a full or drop down transom.

My advice to you is go get a ride on a decent sized boat & dont play the hero in yours.

[garth]

forgot to mention that i would only be going out on flat days and with another boat.

also, one of my questions was how far i would need to go out to get those species.

i never said i was going to drive a significant distance out to sea.

basically i wanna know the game options (for the mentioned fish) for young dudes with not alot of cash and a small boat?

and no, i dont want to go on charters.

[nimrod]

Garth. I will agree with DC until you get experience, and around Sydney.
However don't dismiss the beakie and the Tuna etc all together.
If you are prepared to do a bit of travelling, South west rocks in February can see the Marlin in very close on a good day, you still need some slop on the surface for them to partisipate so in a small boat you still gotta be on your toes, and it's no place for a total beginner in this field.
It's acceptable to catch a beakie of a couple hundred pound in a small tinnie if everyone on board knows his/her job and acts accordinly.
I have got a approx 160 lb striped Marlin boatside doing it solo in a 17 ft boat, ( I lost it boatside ) but those with more experience then myself could have boated the thing.
Dolphinfish, Cobia, Yahoo, Kingies, and the like will give you loads of fun and will teach you the basics of bringing a good fish boatside.
My advice is stick to these species for a while and one day the beakies will come your way.
Just don't rush things cause your safety is the most important thing.
Hope our lectureing don't put you off.

PS My 23 foot boat is considered a small game boat.
Frank

[xtosea]

Garth, apart from DC's comments, about your safety more than anything, and dont wory he goes off at me for going to Browns in my 5m boat, i dont hear the end of it! But its in taken in because he knows from experience the bad that can happen out there in a flash of a second.
Apart from that, at the right times you can go and chase Marlin and Dollys within km's from the heads. The Peak Fad(9km's out)in summer holds Dollys and they can be taken with baits or lures. Troll small lures, either minnows, skirts or jet heads. Troll speed dependant on the seas and currents, generally between 4knots to 8knots, as long as your lures are working/smoking in the water. Baits you can use to burley them up and float baits out in the trail too.
Marlin, you will need some medium sized lures, 5in to 10in say, troll these behind your boat at the same speeds, so long as they are smoking in the water. And hold on, Baby Blacks can be found sometimes between Sydney Heads and Between the Heads at Lion Island, so long as the currents do push in close enough, lets hope for alot of Nor Easters in the next few months! Striped Marlin can also be found in close at times, generally in water temp between 20-23deg. We got one 10miles out last December. But they have also ben found closer in.
As for Tuna, very rarely they are caught inside the Shelf these days, and the Shelf is far out from Sydney. ABout 19NM. You will get Striped Tuna come in close in summer and they can be found along the Headlands at times. Also Longtails cruise the headlands and so do Southern Bluefin for a short time during the year.
Maybe when you are ready someone from here can at least take you out or go on your boat and help you out with setting it up for this type of fishing and showing you how to troll etc.
All the best
Kamil
It is hard to explain

[nimrod]

forgot to mention that i would only be going out on flat days and with another boat.

also, one of my questions was how far i would need to go out to get those species.

i never said i was going to drive a significant distance out to sea.

basically i wanna know the game options (for the mentioned fish) for young dudes with not alot of cash and a small boat?

and no, i dont want to go on charters.

Garth. Once again mate you say young dudes with not a lot of cash.

ONE decent 15 kg game outfit fitted with line will set you back $1000 to start with.
Game fishing is not for dudes with not much cash.
You could get lucky and score a fluke with a lesser set up, but to target these fish with any sort of chance you need the right gear.
Frank

[Dog Catcher]

Yeah well I also failed to mention something.

The worst water you'll find is the 1st 3 miles out to sea esp if you've got cliffs along the coastline, you cop all the backwash & it can get quite woefull @ times.

Mate I'm not trying to put you down personally it's just this thing I have when I read small craft owners wanting to venture out to sea they think because they have all the safty gear they'll be right & that's not the case.

I've had to tow in baby sit craft till help arrived to many times over the years & have a few friends who are lucky to be alive because they thougt it wise to venture out in small craft.

Small craft such as yours are not a stable platforn to fish out of out @ open sea thats why I dont take my little boat out there. & I'll tell you now it's balanced & fitted out alot better than most 15 footers.

In November we start getting whats known as ehe roaring 40's winds coming down from the nth & off Sydney if thats where you intend fishing it dosen't take them long to whip up a sea.

Yes you can hook up malin in very close I've hooked them up inside Botany Bay Heads whilst setting up a lure pattern.

Dolly's on the other hand well you nedd structures like fads & best results aren't on lures you're better off cubing them up & sneak out a loaded hook

[Dog Catcher]

Garth, apart from DC's comments, about your safety more than anything, and dont wory he goes off at me for going to Browns in my 5m boat, i dont hear the end of it! But its in taken in because he knows from experience the bad that can happen out there in a flash of a second.


See that's the problem with small boats you start off in close then get cocky & venture out further & further.

And I blame GPS's for that

Think with alot of esp younger anglers the thrill of trying to catch a fish gets to them & they'll do silly things which will hopefully scare the crap out of them without injury if they're lucky so as they dont do it again.

Again I'll say if you want to chase gamefish then get a ride on a bigger boat one which has had some expirience in game fishing.

You cant read about how to you have to live the expirience 90 % of the fish lost will be @ the boat not in the fight I'll garauntee you that exept for marlin throwing the hooks in the initial stages of a fight.

And thats why earlier I said a small boat well they aren't the best to throw weight around to unbalance them even one person aboard a 18 ft tinny I used to own many years ago fishing for fin of the peak any good sized fish it would be heeby geeby trying to bring it in over the side, I used to tailrope the fish attach the rope to my harness & wlk backwards to slide the fish over the transom.

As mentioned tackle is another thing no one wants to hear about the one that spooled you or you lost it due to in adequate takle they'll laugh @ you. :1yikes:


PS My 23 foot boat is considered a small game boat.
Frank

Mate I'd rather be in my 23ft'r than a larger game boat just about most times

[BONECRUSHER]

Garth

I know it may seem like your getting a forum bashing BUT

These guys are right, and they know there stuff. I have a 5.2m CC and even pulling kings and Mahi Mahi in meduim to flat seas can be tuff with weight being thrown around, let alone big swells. I can recommend you do what i did. I bought a third share in my boat for $3500, Boat is worth $12000+ the bonus was the other guys are married with kids so i mainly use the boat. PLUS THE COST ARE ALOT LESS, Marine Mechs cost heaps, The other day i went to whitworths bought a 18 Inch rail 20 screws and a fuel clip it cost $65.But a great fishing boat she is and its worth it.

From my experiance the further out you want to fish the more expensive it gets, Im talking GPS, Good Marine Radio, EPRIB (Not compulsory for small boats but recommended if you value you life) Good Fishfinder, Reliable motor and or auxilliary motor, Extra fuel, + Learn about barometer's great if you are Off Shore you will know if the winds are coming because the Reading will drop. Could make the differance between a hour ride home and a three hour ride home in a small boat. Plus the Gear for taking down big fish like the others mentioned.

All this stuff you can slowly accumilate because it gets expensive, including tackle. As you get more gear you will get more experiance with the seas and fishing. During the summer Kings are more fun than a barrel of monkeys and you can get them in the harbour and around the heads. you dont have to go far.

I know you dont want to do charter trips but the good ones you will learn techniques and gear, i have been on crap charters and awesome one but you always learn about fishing.

You will learn the best boats are other peoples boats.

Coops
BONECRUSHER :ohhh yeah:

[mr antenna]

Have been going out for years in medium 5 metre to 5.5 metre boats,Nothing wrong with it ,as long as you pick your days.
Recent trip was 50km out to sea,perfect day ,and yes the weather will change every now n then,but i think if you know what your boat can handle ,you are ok.

[garth]

thanks fellas.

i'm quite excited still despite copping the burns.

i know everyone means well.

probably picking up the boat on the weekend. will post picks as the mods progress.

Cheers,

garth

[Dog Catcher]

garth if you insist on venturing out

Wear a condom it will keep you safe :banghead:

[BONECRUSHER]

good luck garth,

No matter what a bad day boating beats a good day working. (unless your tiger woods)

Im sure you will be fine. Check out the other past threads for tips and advive if you need it.

coops

[phild]

I dont want to scare monger but I thought Id put the following post up. I lifted the following from another site but it is very poinient for someone contemplating a trip chasing offshore pelagics in a small boat for the first time. Belive me I know Ive been through this very scenario and it was the scariest few hours of my life.

Do you want to know if your boat, any boat, is safe to take offshore or any other long distance ocean place then try this experiment.

The weather forcast is slight variable sub 5knt Nth Nth/east winds swell is sub .5 of a metre. Wind increasing to 10/15 knots Nth Nth/east later in the afternoon early evening. Tommorows weather is the same so theres no big drama expected

A sweet day to run offshore in a small boat. The plan is leave at daybreak and start heading for home well before the wind picks up say 12/1pm

Of you go at the break of dawn loaded up with ya mate burley and gear with enough fuel to get you there and back, your 4/4.5 mtre tinnie is pretty much at its safe closed water weight capacity but all is good.

After say an hour your 13 miles out, not as well as you thought but still ok. After another hour your pretty close to the mark but you notice its a little sloppy, the boats handling ok so you push on. What you havent known and have no real way of knowing is last night the currents changed you now have a large eddy formed of the Sydney coastline. For the first hour you have been pushing into a 2 or 3 knot current, second hour you have been quatering the current and now your on your mark put out your first cube then a bait and you see its a far current running against the very slight breeze, bugger.

The slight breeze is just enough to make it all fishable. Last nights current change makes the winds change ever so slightly as well, the wind is still slight around 10 am but you notice its starting to get up ever so slightly and decide to maybe start to think about coming in. You used a bucket load more fuel on the way out, more than you anticipated but you still have plenty for the return trip. You decide to do the right thing top up your fuel tanks with the jerry cans you took out before heading home. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ your mates hooked up to a nice fish, 1/2 hour later the fish is boat side and you dragged abourd a nice but stubborn 40kg fin. We are now looking at 11am breeze is up ever so slightly and you say to your mate come on lets go its starting to chop up a bit so you refuel tidy up then start to head home. Motor fires no drama then maybe 500 mtres from where you fired up the motor it coughs and splutters then begins to run real rough, cough splutter dead, bugger you must have had a bit of water or dirt in your jerry can so you switch to your spare tank and the motor still wont run or wont run properly because the dirts in the carby.

You realise your a long way from home the wind is picking up earlier than predicted because of the increased current, the chop is getting uncomfortably bigger because the slight wind is going against the chop. You look around jump on your 27mg radio.
You hadnt noticed but during your mates fight the 3 other boats that were around dicided to head for home, they merrily have their stereos pumping, motors humming along nicely maybe having a chat and dont hear your call.

You grab for your VHF (you do have a VHF dont you?) and get hold of the coast guard phew they will scramble a crew together and get out to you asap.

We are now looking at 12pm the wind is now getting up around the 10/12knots which dosnt sound bad but your well offshore which exagerants the sea currents, the chop is starting to become white caps and the coast guard is still a good hour hour and a half or so away. The wind is still around the 10 knots with gusts of 15 knots and the chop is now standing up around the 2 to 3 foot mark, thats about as big as you would normally take on in your 4/4.5mtre tinnie under normal conditions with out all the additional weight.

2 Scenarios happen from here

Scenario 1
You cant keep the bow into the wind and the occasional slop is running up the transom, dumping 2 or 3 buckets of water into your boat, no worries the bildge pump is working, but is it keeping up with the amount of water comming in? nuh your transom is getting slightly lower in the water and with each wave it drops slightly lower. The wind is now 15 knots with slightly heavier gusts and the chops are getting closer together.
You take a fully breaking chop straight over the transom, it was only a 2 or 3 foot chop but its dumped 1/4 of a tonne of water into the boat and now every chop is easily dumping water over the tinnie, within 15 minutes of that first chop spilling over the transom your now in a very dangerous situation and probably looking for anything to hold on to because your boats up to the gunnels in water, thats summizing its positively bouyant if not you and your mate are bobing around the ocean holding onto an esky. Hope the coast guard get there pretty quick for ya because the very large pelagic sharks found offshore wont be far away.

Scenario 2

You packed a sea anchor and can keep the bow into the chop. The coast guard arrive around 1.30 the wind is say 15 knots with gusts to 20 chop is now around the metre mark and breaking all over the place. The coasts guard guys take you under tow after telling you how stupid you are. The coast guard struggle to tow you safely much faster than 10 knots and all the time the seas are building.
Its now 2.30/3pm and your still 12 miles out to sea in 1 mtre plus wind chop with around 15/20knot nth easters in your 4/4.5mtre tinnie, you should get home but you are in real danger.


Try this experiment if you are really sure you want to take your small boat out far offshore.
Next time theres a 15/20knot nth easter with say 1 mtre wind chop take your tinnie out 5 miles and see what sort of conditions you could potentially face.
Now I know all those who think they are bullet proof will say that dosnt happen but those of us who spend conciderable hours out on the deep stuff know these are mild conditions. Its nothing for us to face 25knt winds on days that are supposed to be no bigger than 15knots.

Use your boats for the conditions they were intended or become 6 oclock news statistics, maybe not your next trip but eventually.
Is it worth it?

[Dog Catcher]

phild !

No amount of reading can prepare you for ocean conditions nor can weather forecasts they're only a guide.

I've had a few scares in my time back when I fished smaller boats like I've said many a time the trick is not getting out there it's getting back.

If there's one single prob which I find with smaller boats I would have to say over crowding weather it be to share costs or an extra mate or 2 wanting to come out for the day.

I see it all the time & just shake my head esp if those on board are a bit on the obese side if I had my way I reckon there should be an inspector @ the heads or river mouths to determine ifa vessel is safe enough to venture out.

Pesonally ifI'm cubing there's only 2 maybe 3 on board max & 4 in total if I'm pulling lures for billfish & my boat is alot bigger than 15 ft

[sclark3]

Have been going out for years in medium 5 metre to 5.5 metre boats,Nothing wrong with it ,as long as you pick your days.
Recent trip was 50km out to sea,perfect day ,and yes the weather will change every now n then,but i think if you know what your boat can handle ,you are ok.

I also use to go out to the Fads on a nice day in a 5m tinnie, you generally find the heads are the tough part then smooth sailing, always best to make sure you come home with a tail wind, read the weather sites and always check the wind before launching as it is usually different to when you leave hme....:Death_To_Above: And most time out there it is like a car park:banghead:

[sclark3]

Also you dont need big gear for Dollies, if you get spooled so be it enjoy the sport of it:ohhh yeah:

[changa]

forgot to mention that in terms of "tips" i mean

- locations
- range out to sea
- lures trolling speeds
-how prevalent are fish traps out there?

etc

as you can see i no bugger all but keen to learn

LOCATIONS: In a small boat, i would be looking at targetting the inshore reefs. All gamefish need food, and inshore reefs hold bait species as well as larger fish on their diets.Sure, they are some very productive areas in close, but i think if you troll different areas you will learn something new for each place you fish everytime you go there.
Some very productive places off Broken bay include the large reef system known as Broken Bay wide. Being of longitudinal orientation, you get to cover a lot of ground knowing you are ALWAYS in the strike zone.
Terrigal wide, Avoca Wide, Terrigal traps, BB traps, Ezzies, Longy and the waveriders all hold great fish given the tidal movements and SST's.

RANGE: Anywhere from the heads to 15nm is about as far as you really need to go or would WANT to go in a boat like yours, and you WILL catch fish if you do the right things.
Marlin dont just jump omn any old hook(although there has been some pretty amazing captures over time)
You will need good quality lures/rigs if you dont want to waste time on the water, and a few good outfits that wont sieze or buckle under a decent drag for long periods.

LURES & TROLLING SPEEDS: Lures to use for beginners would be quality pushers or chugger style lures in 5-6 inch up to approx 8inch.
For ease, maybe best you have them rigged by someone you know that catches lots game fish or your local tackle store. For saftey sake, best you go good single hook rigs.
Trolling speed really depends on the lures and how they are running, but generally between 6.5 - 7knts will be perfect.

FISH TRAPS: Fish traps are prevalent during the summer months and some hols fish well. Some are in same spots regulary, and some pros move them all the time. FAD's and waveriders are usually held in the same position all year round as long as massive seas dont require them to be pulled before lost and re set.
These are great places to troll around and would probably produce more than fishing over barron reef.
Surface bait is probably the best area to fish, and the slower the bait moves, the better results will be.
Most people try to drift thru bait balls or run through them.
If you do this, you will disperse the bait quickly or it will go down and you will cut your fishing time.The predators only feed on the outside of bait balls and can pick off prey much easier. Keep a good distance from the bait and you will get more fish than cutting thru it.

As for your boat, sure, you can catch fish out of it, but just remember, the slightest change in weather could see your boat sunk faster than you can blink an eye.
I have been caugh out in big boats that have taken hours to get back in, in what took no time to get out there.
Had skippers bail out from behind the wheel and left me to drive the big things in. Luckily, these baots are built to take a pounding and we made it back in JUST !!!
As others have said, BE CAREFUL.
The sea is the most powerful, under estimated force on the planet, and whilst it can be the most pristine, serene and tranquil place on earth sometimes, it can also be the scarriest place just the same.
Until you are in a situation where you fear for your life, you wont probably understand this.

Best of luck

changa

[netic]

Some awesome info there from some experienced guys,

I got out and chase Dollies in my 4.75 Alum boat, I have had it as far out as the shelf, granted if the weather turned to crap it would be a long and bumpy ride home and trust me it has happened to me and its a very scary experiece.

I never go offshore without all the safety gear, Epirb, Radio, Life jackets etc and make sure you truly know how to handle rough conditions.

Pick your days, I have had days where it was like glass out there and i could hit 30 knots in my small boat........

Be smart and dont forget no fish is worth your life and the lives of your crew, make sure you have adequate water on board and log in with the coast guard as you leave the bay.

What i suggest for your first few trips is to buddy up with some other boats, there are many members here who go out regulary and im sure would buddy up with you, this way if something goes wrong there is a second boat nearby.

[borisboga]

Changa...
Good post there mate, welldone:headbang: :headbang:
:appl: :appl: :appl: :appl:

[Haji]

What an awesome range of posts!

And the "what if" scenario is all too real. The sea IS the most powerfull force on the planet and woebetide he who ignores her strength or her moods.

Listen to DC, he's been there as have the other posts warning against being too cocky going out without experience or all of the gear to keep you safe.

I just hate obituary's don't you?

Cheers all

[Dog Catcher]

What i suggest for your first few trips is to buddy up with some other boats, there are many members here who go out regulary and im sure would buddy up with you, this way if something goes wrong there is a second boat nearby.

4got all about this thread

The above is very good advice.

Back when I had my 18ft tinny if going further out than the peak say out to the shelf I would team it up with some mates who had a 18ft cat to venture out together.

Great plan only prob was they'd leave me for dead if there was any sort of sea my boat couldn't handle the sea's like the cat & I'd have to turn around & come back in & fish close to home.

garth !

Another prob you have with a centre consol in open sea's is there's no buildup @ bow of boat like say a cuddy cab has so any waves you hit means a very good chance that water will end up inside the boat.

Still reckon you should hitch a ride if you want to gamefish but if fish traps are in close they will yeild Mahi's & so do the wave buoys

[garth]

thanks for all the replies.

good info changa

DC i opted against cutting up the boat into a centre console. once i got it i weighed it up and it just wasnt worth it for the space it would have reduced.

My boat is an absolute weapon! haha photos to come when it is complete.

[Dog Catcher]

It's only a little boat garth

Mines the same size & I'll tell you what it sucks not having protection from both sun & sea.

If you've got some sort of cuddy cab I'd leave it as it is I only did mine up as a CC moreso to spin out of.

If I want to have a serious day out then I'll take the bigger tub out

[changa]

what people fail to realise is that boat builders make different models for different people. Not everyone can afford a mini game boat, or a big $$$ cuiser.
we all start somewhere, and as long as garth has friends from a site like this, the i would hope he has great chance at being safe and learning the way the sea operates.
if in danger, i would be there for you mate, that what places like this are about.
dont ever think for one minute that they will jeapordise their crew or life to save your boat and posessions though.
Just remember that.
I can read thru the posts here, and can see that all the posters with negative comments have fared the powerful sea to the point of being at mercy.
What you really need to do is get with some of these guys and learn some tricks that may just save your life.
In saying all that, a 4m boat could be a stable platform, but a 5.5m with a 'WET DECK' would be 100 times better in the open sea.
It dont take much to make a boat safe, just a couple of vital points.
here's hoping you smash some huge fish mate,
best of luck

changa