View Full Version : Bearing buddys?
hey
we have lost 3 bearing buddys on the same side of our trailer in the last 3 monthes
1 we lost today, one on the way to lake macquaire and one on the way back...
dad bangs them in properly and we havent had a problem with the other side...
is there anything we could use to make them stay in for good?
one thing we have thought about is silicon?
your thoughts please
sounds like its your hub, silicone may work or open op the baring buddy edge a litle before tapping it in.
Dog Catcher
20-10-07, 09:39 PM
Silicon will be of no use to you unless you degrease the hub internally & even if you wiped it with something like prepsol silicon probally still wont adhere.
And you were thing of running silicon externally again not such a good idea in my books.
Now as long as nobody is knocking off the buddys I would suggest getting yourself a roll of plumbers gas tape it's basically the same as thread tape but a bit thicker I've used it in the past with a worn hub.
But when next you replace your bearings I'd buy a new hub only around $30 & you dou get a new set of bearings & seals with it so in reality hub only costs around $15
thanks DC and greg
i just showed dad the replys and he will muck around tomorrow.
mulloway mayhem
20-10-07, 10:06 PM
gday tom......mate get your dad to check out the dura hubs.....a new bearing thats been out a fews yrs now.......mate they are the ducks guts and u will never ever need to change your bearings again.....i have them on my trailer....so next time u see me i will show you them.....
ok thanks wayneo, i think ill get him to take me to a boating shop tomorrow to pick some up.
Wayne is spot on Durahubs are the ducks guts, no hassle replacement that most people should think about putting on thier trailers.
After all if you don't get there there's no fun had & a pain in the backside gettin home..
Dog Catcher
21-10-07, 06:52 PM
Had never heard of those Duo Hubbys B4 & was curious so correct me if I'm couldn't understand the guy in viseo he spoke american those guys talk funny.
Is what he was reying to say you dont need grease & the oil they supply the sole lubricant for the bearings ????????????????
Because whats confucioused me is even oil will go to a dark colour once it's been worked
Oh here's the video
http://www.durahub.com/videos/marketing/durahub-video.html
what we have done is brought 2 more buddys and will be doing DC's idea of the plumbers gas tape.
we looked at buying a new hub but they where 70 bucks and they where holden not ford... we will probabley replace the hub next time we do the bearings which will be in around 12 monthes.
thanks for all the replys
Dog Catcher
21-10-07, 07:04 PM
That's a bit dear Tom $70 you haven't got brakes on the trailer have you ???
Cause thats up around what you would pay for a disc hub
yer we have brakes, its the larger sized hub we needed aswell.
you guys were right on the price for the smaller ones they where 30 but we needed the larger ones...
yep oil only like a transmission.
Tom, years ago, as a young man when I used to work on (clapped out) cars we sometimes found that a bearing cone would spin inside the hub. We fixed that by using a centre punch to raise a series of spots inside the hub (typically 8 to 12) and then belting the cone in over the raised spots. Worked a treat! A little hard to get the punch in at an angle but it can be done.
In my experience using tape or anything that attempts to place a different material between the metal parts does not work all that well, and can even make the problem worse if you use a slippery material. A "mechanical fix" such as I described above has the effect of reducing the diameter of the hub (via the punch marks) thereby tightening the metal to metal contact.
Let's know how you get on.
Cheers
Dog Catcher
21-10-07, 10:14 PM
Haji I dont think you're familiar with the tape I suggested
It's nor a masking or electical tape nor does it have any adhesive features about it @ all.
It's used to seal any gaps in gas & water lines on threaded fixtures
using tape or anything that attempts to place a different material between the metal parts does not work all that well
This stuff works a treat it will fill in any cavities within reason & for what Tom wants to do that job is well within reason & he'll have to get a hammer & rimber block onto the bearing mate to remove it once the tape has been applied.
Going around using a centre punch is not a very good idea on a bearing mate even if your punching the hub itself.
You're not creating a seal & when the grease starts to liquify which even high temp grease does once it heats up then it will start to ooze out no different to if you get a nick in the rear seal & you'll get the grease spraying out onto the rim.
I guess we will agree to disagree DC, I have used the centre punch method many times and always succesfull. It only takes a few thou difference between the inside diameter of the hub and the outside diameter of the buddy to have the buddy come loose. It is not possible to fill a small gap such as that with any sort of tape, it will simply bunch up on the outside where it will have no effect whatever.
Unlike taps and gas fittings which generally use tapered threads that are suited to the use of tape to seal them (or hemp as used to be used in times gone by) the sides of the hub and the buddy are generally parallel which means that there is no way that any tape can be introduced at the start of assembling the components when there is a relatively loose fit between them and then fill the space between components and seal it as the components are fully seated. Tapered threads rely on that process to form a good seal. By contrast,parralel components generally rely on a mechanical "interference fit".
We should also recognise that any "fix" will be a stopgap to getting a new or used hub that has a tight fit between the Buddy and the hub. Hence the question of some grease possibly leaking past the gaps between the raised punched spots is irrelevant. If the bearings are topped up with a grease gun after every use (as I tend to do) there should be no problems in using the "punched" solution for quite some time. As to grease spraying onto the inside of the wheels, so what? Better than loosing another buddy or getting water into the bearings.
Cheers
Dog Catcher
21-10-07, 11:16 PM
Your method was fine inside the hub to lock in the cones Haji but there's no reasin to worry about grease escaping in there the hub is a different story.
Not 100 % certain but I think you'll find there is a taper on the end of the hub realistically there has to be cause thats what locks in either a buddy or one of those ordinary gal hub ends.
it will simply bunch up on the outside where it will have no effect whatever
Thats the whole ide of this tape I suggested & what it was designed to do fill in small tolerances the tape itself is very stretchy & what is not required to fill in the cavity will bunch out & you just peel it off the tape that remains berween the hub & bearing cap is more than good enough to lock the cap in .
Like I originally said I have used it myself on my trailer & it lasted for years.
Hemp is used mainly by the sprinkler system Co's & I wouldn't use it in Tom little prob.
As to grease spraying onto the inside of the wheels, so what?
We dont share the same views in that one @ all I'm afraid
1st of all I dont like the look of it
2nd of all the grease is meant to be inside & not outside the hub .
3rdly depending on use & how much of the grease you lose will determine whether you seize a bearing esp on a trip
4thly if grease can get out then salt water can get in
5thly grease can get onto your tyres whichich is not hard to considering how hot rubber does get & tyres dont grip very well when oil or greage is on them
As I said DC, we continue to agree to disagree on this one.
Both Buddies and Hubs have a taper on their leading edge otherwise you would not be able to get either the Buddies or the normal bearing caps into the hub.
If the difference between the ID of the hub and OD of the Buddie is more than a few thou there is nothing that will keep the Buddie in place, not tape or shims or centrepunched "dots". Conversely,a small difference can definately be fixed via the centre punch method that I described earlier.
The anular space between the Buddie and the Hub in a situation that can be fixed via the centre punch method is not large enough to allow other than minute quantities of grease to bleed through (if any). In fact it would be more likely for grease to bleed through the rear seal as often happens when topping up the grease to the point where the sliding seal in the front of the Buddie hits the inside front of the Buddie at which point the full pressure of whatever grease gun is being used is applied to the rear seal. (before the sliding seal hits the inside front of the Buddie the applied pressure will not exceed the seal spring pressure which the seals are designed to cope with)
If there is a large quantity of grease spreading itself on the hub/tyre then I agree with you there is only one cure and that is to fit a new hub.
Finally, I am not theorising on this issue but writing based on personally correcting a significant number of loose bearings and Buddies over many years using the centre punch method. In any event, it is worht a try, it cost nothing and can readily be checked for its effectiveness before driving away.
Cheers All.
Hey guys...where can you get the durhub things from??? and where is the best place to get new hubs from for a trailer
Gentlemen, you are both right. There are a couple of different types of bearing buddies/mates etc they have different names as well.
There is the metal type, which adapts to the centre punch method ( haji I would be centre punching the bearing mate rather then the hub ) and there is a plastic type one, which adapts very well to the plumbers tape method ( 2 - 3 wrapps and disguard the waste ) both work fine.
Netic. Don't know if you are a Ebay supporter or a non user but a bloke on there I buy a lot of gear off is very good to deal with, he sells both standard and galvanised hubs, a bit cheaper the Bias etc. By the time you added freight for just one item though I don't know if you would be saving enough to warrent the exercise.
I gererally buy a few items at a time and the savings add up well.
If interested I could give you his contact.
Frank
Hey guys...where can you get the durhub things from??? and where is the best place to get new hubs from for a trailer
Dont know about the durahubs mate, but i recently got my new hubs from Carosel Trailers. They seemed reasonable or try ebay
When you buy hubs for a boat trailer are they doferent to say a normal box trailer...
I imagine that seeing its going in and out of the water it has to have some improvements over a standard trailer hub..
Also WayneO...with the Durahub...how does the Oil get to the back bearing if the nut is put on......i watched the video and i can only presume that it seeps through the bearing itself..is that right.
mulloway mayhem
22-10-07, 07:33 PM
hey netic.....a guy i know did my durahubs for me...he is out pennrith way......the durahubs are $125 a pair to buy and this dude put them on for around $60 or $70 for me.......
on the top of the bearing there is a bolt,you just undo it and pour the oil in.......
they say if you have oil in your hubs and drive for a few wks then drain all the oil out,you can drive for 10,000kms before you do a bearing.........they are awsome and i also drove from penrith to brooklyn which is about 1hr and 20mins and when i got out i felt how warm my bearings were and they were as cold as when i left........
if anyone decides to get them you will definatly tell everyone you know to get em.........
not sure netic how the oil gets in the back but they have a seal on the back and you only pour the bearing with oil half way coz when you drive the oil lubes the whole bearing.....
good luck guys and if anyone of you guys do as much fishing and driving as i do you should seriously put these durahubs on....never need to replace beqarings again.....
Netic. The hub is the same. You can get galvanised ( much better for boats ) or normal steel. there is different types of hubs and bearings, early/late holden, Ford and leyland. Then there is all the 4x4 veriety.
If you know what sort of hub your trailer has it's easy. If you don't know what you have it can be a nightmare.
Frank
mulloway mayhem
22-10-07, 07:46 PM
also netic just take your old hub with you ........i get all my hubs from carousel trailers at grt wstrn highway wentworthville.......
they are good down there mate...lets us know how u go
storms72
22-10-07, 08:11 PM
Bearing buddies (would guess dura hubs are a similar thing) work by having a seal on the outer washer then a spring where the layer of grease is then the inner washer which is slightly smaller to allow the grease to get to the bearing then the bearing....the idea is to have a larger amount of grease moving around the bearings which keeps the bearings cooler....normal set-ups have much less grease in them which does increase heat and can cause problems such as dry hubs due to heat, they also miss out on the spring which in effect causes the grease to be pushed into the bearing ensuring plenty of lube to keep things nice and slippery!
Just rear the earlier posts, in the middle with you Frank but wouldn't agree with plastic bearings, also hate the idea of any sort of special tape or whatever to space things on a hub, also would prefer to replace a hub rather than punch it to make things fit, might be a temporary fix but anyone who's had a bearing sieze due to lack of grease will have to agree its an accident waiting to happen.......get it sorted once and properly Tom....Many bearing buddies/dura hubs get stolen as cheap arse thieves just love em.....As was once said before all comments here are only a guide on whats worked for one member or another....go visit a trailer joint mate they will get you sorted with what you are after.
Jason
Jason. " Just rear the earlier posts, in the middle with you Frank but wouldn't agree with plastic bearings,"
Don't shoot the messenger mate, I don't make the things. And the bearings are not plastic, it's the bearing mate's that are of a plastic/ graphite compound ( not a chemist so can't tell the exact chemical ) , these ones would be OK with a plumbers tape around the flange to make a firmer fit.
We don't know exactly what Tom has here so it's all a bit of speculating.
It would be good if the first post asked exactly what type of system we are talking about instead of everyone just giving opinions of what is probably not even the system Tom has on the wheels.
I can see the site starting to develop personalities, and egos.
Frank
fishinf
22-10-07, 08:36 PM
i have a bearing buddy that falls of and i recon that idea of
ceter punching some dents in it is a top idea
thats what il do
cant imagine il have any more probs
our trailer is meant for ford hubs and it needs the larger sized hubs if this helps...
and its the hole metal and red cap part that falls out not just the cap...
cheers
Tom. Do everyone a favour and go and get one of these bearing buddies, ( if that's what they are ) and have a good look at the brand name on them and also see if you can see if they have where they were made.
There is the original Bearing Buddie, and there are cheaper copies, There are Bearing mates and there are wheel seal and there are probably a few more that I haven't come across as yet.
Are they steel, plastic, have they got central U clip spring, have they got coil spring.
Let us know what you have.
Frank
Frank they are a cheap brand called ARK, they are made from stainless steel. Made in taiwan... They have the U-clip spring
cheers
Dog Catcher
22-10-07, 09:03 PM
When you buy hubs for a boat trailer are they doferent to say a normal box trailer...
I imagine that seeing its going in and out of the water it has to have some improvements over a standard trailer hub..
Also WayneO...with the Durahub...how does the Oil get to the back bearing if the nut is put on......i watched the video and i can only presume that it seeps through the bearing itself..is that right.
No netic same hubs for all trailers only difference is whether you get hubs to suit forf or holden bearings as well as the hubs you also need to marry the correct size axle.
I was spewing a couple of months back built a new stainless steel tralier for my little tinny & had to go to ford bearings & hubs cause I wanted to sleeve the axle inside stainless tube.
Difference between the holden & ford axles is the holden is 38 mm & the ford a bit beefier @ 45 mm
The video ??
I dug that up out of curiosity & wouldn't go getting rid of my bearing mates only difference between them & the durahub is one has a looking glass but you can achieve the same result by viewing how far the spring loaded plate is on the buddies.
Mind you although they didn't say on the video I think that oil is synthetic & I like that idea but you can also get synthetic grease as well & thats what I use costs a bit more but worth it.
Dog Catcher
22-10-07, 09:07 PM
our trailer is meant for ford hubs and it needs the larger sized hubs if this helps...
and its the hole metal and red cap part that falls out not just the cap...
cheers
OK Tom !
Have you got or know how to use verniers ???
Dog Catcher
22-10-07, 09:25 PM
they're a measuring tool like a micrometer
Just after reading that post of your's that I quoted you got me thinking cause even the time I had to use tape on my hub I only did so so cause I didn't want to use one of those metal caps'
Which by the way had no probs fitting in tightly.
Going by what you said in that reply I'm not totally convinced you've got the correct buddy & that's why it's so loose.
What you may want to do is visit a place that sells hubs & see if your buddy fit's in tightly into a new hub.
Dont force it in all the way you'll know if it's gonna be a tight fit & if it's not then you've got the wrong buddy I'm afraid.
Mentioned somewhere in this thread think Frank did ? there's cheap crap from taiwan crap like that dont have the correct tolerance & should never be allowed on the marketplace.
You may have one of those
Frank, never heard of or seen plastic "Buddies" so cannot comment other than to say that I don't think that I would use them in preference to metal ones.
Jason the purpose of the spring in the "Buddies" is:
(1) to protect the rear seal from being overpressured when pumping the grease in. You know that there is enough grease in the hub when the front seal plate (the one with the grease nipple in it) moves out against the spring about half way.
(2) the other purpose of the spring is to compensate for sudden cooling of the hubs/bearings as a trailer is driven into the water.
The sudden cooling causes the grease to contract (it expanded during travel pushing the spring out) The spring then "sucks in" which acts to keep pressure on the grease. Without the spring the contraction of the grease and resulting differential pressure between the inner hub and atmosphere would cause water to be sucked into the bearings via the rear seal.
Frank if my comments and detailed explanations are upsetting people please let me know and I will stop offering comments based on my personal experience. My aim is to be helpfull not a pain in the #$%@^.
Cheers
great idea DC, i will tell dad to stop buying the taiwan ones...
Haji i find you very helpful.
storms72
22-10-07, 09:58 PM
Haji, haven't owned them myself-only owned 2 boats and both were within 20m of water.....o can only relay what I was told by a possibly over zealous sales rep years ago!!!! Frank, no Ego's buddy just putting my thoughts and ideas forward in the way I do-please don't take offence as none was meant...not saying what I believe to be the bottom line as others seem to do!!!!
Jason:Drinkin:
Dog Catcher
22-10-07, 10:03 PM
Frank if my comments and detailed explanations are upsetting people please let me know and I will stop offering comments based on my personal experience. My aim is to be helpfull not a pain in the #$%@^. (#$%@^.)
Haji who you upsetting now ???
Not me I actually quite enjoy debating points with people makes for good topics else they are boring keep it up. :duel:
Yeah Tom it was the only thing I could think of since you've not familiar with measuring tools.
For those who dont know plastic can be chrome plated very easy & if you're not to clued on it's very easy to assume those taiwanese cheapies are the real thing
storms72
22-10-07, 10:11 PM
Haji...upsetting ppl....think not, maybe if you'd made it to the meet you would've realised this!:stone: :tease:
I'v seen the chrome plated plastic...yeah works great till the chrome comes off, I'm sure we've all been shopping at Go Lo too!!!
Friendly discussion is fine, telling others they're wrong or stupid and not providing a descent reason as to why is some peeps idea of debating!:nutkick:
Haji. mate don't think you would be upsetting anyone, and Jason Just pointing out that the bearings were not plastic.
Haji if you PM me your postal address I will send you a plastic bearing mate so you can see one, there are heaps of cheap copies going around and this is one of the main problems.
A guy askes a question but before anyone knows exactly what the product is, everyone starts giving different opinions ( which is great ) but lets establish what the product is before we start debating what each other says.
A solution to one product would/could be a disaster to another but similar product.
Frank
TAKE YOUR POINT FRANK, NO NEED TO SEND ME A PLASTIC BUDDY I CAN PICTURE WHAT THEY LOOK AND PERFORM LIKE.
I DO AGREE WITH YOU THAT IT IS IMPORTANT TO DETERMINE WHAT IS BEING TALKED ABOUT BEFORE COMMENTING HOWEVER IF (AS WAS THE CASE WITH ME) YOU HAVE NEVER RUN ACCROSS A PLASTIC VERSION OF A BUDDY YOUR COMMENTS ARE GOING TO BE RELATIVE TO YOUR EXPERIENCE WHICH IN MY CASE HAS BEEN WITH THE GENUINE SS ARTICLE.
I CAN SEE THAT IT MAY BE POSSIBLE TO USE TAPE ON A PLASTIC UNIT BUT I STAND BY MY COMMENTS RE USING A CENTRE PUNCH INSIDE THE HUB TO SECURE LOOSE METAL BUDDIES. ALSO, I WOULD NOT PUNCH THE BUDDY INSTEAD OF THE HUB FOR REASON THAT ANY RAISING OF PUNCH HOLES INSIDE THE HUB WILL DIG INTO THE OUTER SURFACE OF THE BUDDY WHEREAS ANY RAISED PUNCH MARKS ON THE BUDDY WILL MERELY FLATTEN AS YOU HAMMER THE BUDDY IN PLACE. TRUST ME, I HAVE DONE BOTH.
Haji. While not wishing to debate the issue as I have not had the need to do it, I would imagine to centre punch the Stainless steel which is a far superior and tougher material then the cast steel that the hub is made out of, I would imagine the stainless would stay in shape while the cast would be the material that would be the weaker substance.
Anyhow whichever material digs into what the process would work.
Frank
Frank I dont disagree re the relative toughness of SS versus cast iron.
I have not tried to use the centre punch method on the outside of a Buddie but as I recall the Buddie case is fairly thin (SS sheetmetal or close to it?) as against the much more solid hub, if so, raised centre punch "dots" on the Buddie case will likely just flatten as it is driven into the hub as against dots in the hub actually digging into the thinner metal of the Buddie case.
As it is all conjecture at this point maybe we should get together, get an old hub and Buddie and do some experiments to put the issue beyond doubt. I'm game.
Cheers mate.
Dog Catcher
23-10-07, 10:13 AM
Frank I dont disagree re the relative toughness of SS versus cast iron
I sorta do
Think peeps are a bit mis-illusioned about the strength & hardness off S/S it's actually quire a weak material.
I used to go through around 5 ton of the stuff b4 retiring can be a bitch to drill if not done correctly it is harder than mild steel.
Only commented because prrps think that S/S is a very hard material to work with & not the case.
Bolts on motors are a good example they have steel in them cause if they were nickle [s/s] then you would be shearing them off all the time.
The buddy's ?? well they're made out of mild steel chrome plated
Thanks for the info guys re- Hubs and Durahubs....i recently changed my bearings and they are Holden bearings si i resume i will get holden hubs...
The reason i ask is because when i changed my bearings it was impossible to get the steel rims/rings out( Whatever they are called)...buit they didnt seem damaged at all so i put the new bearings in with the old rims.....my boat mechnic said it should be fine so long as there wasnt any damage to the rims themselves.
SO i have decided that i will use the new bearings for this summer and then change the whole hub come Autumn and the current hub is a little rusted anyway.
I would be concerned that the durahubs can get pinched quite easy...i have had bearing buddys pinched twice now at ramps and at $120 for the durahubs they can be expensive to replace
Dog Catcher
23-10-07, 10:56 AM
The reason i ask is because when i changed my bearings it was impossible to get the steel rims/rings out( Whatever they are called)...buit they didnt seem damaged at all so i put the new bearings in with the old rims.....
Not a very wise thing to do & I'm assuming you're refering to the bearing cones ?
They are hardened steel & even with all there hardness they still wear by leaving them in you've defeated the purpose if changing the bearings.
They are quite easy to take out you need to punch them out use a softer metal like Alliminium or bras both work well & because both are sof they wont damage the hub.
Most peeps use a socket to drive new cones back in I prefer not to rick damaging tools so I use the old cones & simply cut a slot into their sides with grinder this is to allow you to remove them easily once driven into the hub .
They're a perfect fit & the slot allows them to contract that little bit required just use a screwdriver to pop them back out.
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