Port Hacking 08/03/08

[jacobvz]

Hi Guys

Went fishing in Port Hacking today, mainly to try my new fishfinder. I got a humminbird 525.
It seems to be working quite well as it was very clear in finding the fish. Catching them however still requires the skills that I must be lacking a bit :-)

I managed quite a few bream and yakka on squid (frozen crap, but I have not yet ventured in to catching my own). Most of the bream was too small but one may actually have been legal (see pic) I chucked it back anyway.
2874

One question about the fishfinder though. There is quite a bit of spray coming of the transducer (at higher speeds) even though it is barely under the hull. I could lift it higher so it does not go under the hull at all but than it will not register anything on the plane.
Can I just put a strip of alumium above it to stop the spray from coming straight up and onto the engine? I have one of those aluminium plates welded on the back so no need to screw into the hull.
Any advise please?

Jack

[Dog Catcher]

Good one Jack

One question about the fishfinder though. There is quite a bit of spray coming of the transducer (at higher speeds)

Not good mate the air intakes on your outboard will suck in that spray, have to rember you see spray opticuly but there is mist there.

I could lift it higher so it does not go under the hull at all but than it will not register anything on the plane.

You've answered your own Q

Can I just put a strip of alumium above it to stop the spray from coming straight up and onto the engine?

There's probally one better solution that I can think off but I'd like you to take a pic of the transducer mounted on the transom 1st

[jacobvz]

Jack after attending a night with an expert on sounders

.....Try this next time you're out, put it into arc mode(as was explained to me fish ID mode is crap and a waste of time) and see if you are getting full arcs returned-while on the water at rest you need to adjust the transducer up or down to get full arcs once you get that sorted then its just a matter of adjusting height so you get clean readings and another tip the transducer only needs to be skimming the surface of the water not fully emersed while underway....

Beats can you add some more to this one mate I know you know heaps more than I!

Good luck buddy
Jason

PS: feel free to PM me if you get stuck!


Played around with arc and fish id mode and all sorts of settings and was quite happy with the result already. Will study the book a bit later to find out some more options. Like I said I was able to spot quite a bit of fish (large ones chasing around schools of little ones as well, it is just the catching bit that was lagging quite a bit :redface:

DC, I'll take some pics tomorrow, bit dark now

ok edit:

Picture.

2875

Jack

[Dog Catcher]

OK Jack !

The bracket is fine I have the same setup on my wittle tinny, better to drill into the bracket than into the transom.

Now remember you've only got a small powered tranducer if I'm not mistaken around 300 watts ???

So dont expect great readings @ speed it just dosen't have the power.

To stop the spray !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1stly I would not put a cover over the top because it'll only act as a deflector &that spray has to go somewhere & thats back don into the water where it may create airation & thats when you'll really get crappy readings.

The reason you're get spray is because of the cavity between the transon & the front of the transducer, water streams out from under the hull finds a cavity , hits the tranducer & there's your spray.

What I would be doing & have done successfully in the past is fill in that cavity using Sikaflex.

Yep you'll go through a near full tube , in your case I would also be raising the transducer up a touch going by the pic it's a bit hard to tell from where I'm looking.

I see you've got no more adjustment on existing bolts to do so & since you have to drill new holes I'd also be moving transducer towards the motor centralising it with the pressed portion of the hull then use the sikaflex.

Now getting back to sounder settings !!!

On my bigger Furuno I can even program the settings to show fish images same as alot of the other less expensive sounder again it's only a gimmick.

You need to know what you are targetings their depth range etc if you want to determine what the fish are simple as that.

I dont use the sounder to find fish I use it to determine reef structure under the boat couldn't care less if no fish are showing in fact I prefer it that way.

Anchor correctly, get a burley trail going & the fish will come to you, I do however leave the sounder on all day & when the fish do arrive I can tell you what they are & if they're going to bite.

Only because I've been fishing my spots that long I know whats down there.

[xtosea]

The back of the transducer should be pointing down towards the front of the boat. Fish mode is crap. You need to adjust the greyline and sensitivity to get a good reading.
Kamil

[quintrex101]

Those arcs can be a bit off bulls**t they dont always tell you what the fish are, nor the size of them it's just a feature which is a sales gimmick.



i was starting to think that, on my sounder i had to turn the fishmode off and just leave the depth reading on and the temp and battery level reading thingy , because every 2 seconds it was beeping with fish under it there was 1000 on the sceen at all different depths, never seen or caught them at most places but everywhere i go it was the same .... my sounder only 300 wat i think and it reads ok at speed but maybe it not so right

[imnotafish]

A bit of info to add to the thread if people are still using fish mode on their fishfinders... my advice is dont..... , the 'arcs' and baitschools talked about seen on sounders are not fish mode id's, they are the pixels the fish makes on your sounder when they pass under the transducer beam. using fish id's will not give you any information really so dont use them.
Anyway you know from the 'arcs' the direction and general density of a fish moving in the beam (under the boat). it will not show fish size super well unless you and the fish are static or u r experienced. also bait fish or deepwater bottom fish eg snapper on he bottom will not often show as arcs, rather different densities of pixels. but kingys or other bigger midwater fish will often show as arc like pixels on the screen.
you can work out the width of your beam at any depth but some simple maths. i think its depth x 1,7tan or similar i will find out and post it. does depend on your transducer but gives you a bit of an idea of how far you can "see".
watching a sounder when downrigging with a camera on the downrigger you can see the fish come up for the bait on the sounder in an 'arc' and then see the fish on the camera hit the bait.... which is pretty cool.
There is a great DVD on how to read your sounder too by rick huckstepp which is well worth a viewing and will improve anyones fishfinder knowledge

[Dog Catcher]

Daniel it all get back to what Kamil said

You need to adjust the greyline and sensitivity to get a good reading.

Once you figure out what each nob/button etc does then the rest is easy.

I often see peeps complain they lose readings @ speed but if you're running @ speed you're not fishing are you ????

because every 2 seconds it was beeping with fish under it there was 1000 on the sceen at all different depths, never seen or caught them at most places but everywhere i go it was the same ....

To get rid of the beeps just turn the alarm off it's another bulls**t feature built into sounders never used it & would only do so if I were in a unfamiliar area & I wasn't sure of depths.

You probally make the same mistake so many make !

They see mass's of fush on the screen & right away drop anchor, go back to what I said ealier when I said

I look for reef/structure only & if I see mass's on the screen I move to another spot, cause all that will happen is those peckers wont allow you to get a bait down.

Different story say if you were targetting larger fush like Kungs, Jewgong etc then you stay with those baitfish schools cause if the big boys are around they'll eventually find the schools.

[jacobvz]

OK Jack !

The bracket is fine I have the same setup on my wittle tinny, better to drill into the bracket than into the transom.

Now remember you've only got a small powered tranducer if I'm not mistaken around 300 watts ???

So dont expect great readings @ speed it just dosen't have the power.

To stop the spray !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1stly I would not put a cover over the top because it'll only act as a deflector &that spray has to go somewhere & thats back don into the water where it may create airation & thats when you'll really get crappy readings.

The reason you're get spray is because of the cavity between the transon & the front of the transducer, water streams out from under the hull finds a cavity , hits the tranducer & there's your spray.

What I would be doing & have done successfully in the past is fill in that cavity using Sikaflex.

Yep you'll go through a near full tube , in your case I would also be raising the transducer up a touch going by the pic it's a bit hard to tell from where I'm looking.

I see you've got no more adjustment on existing bolts to do so & since you have to drill new holes I'd also be moving transducer towards the motor centralising it with the pressed portion of the hull then use the sikaflex.

Now getting back to sounder settings !!!

On my bigger Furuno I can even program the settings to show fish images same as alot of the other less expensive sounder again it's only a gimmick.

You need to know what you are targetings their depth range etc if you want to determine what the fish are simple as that.

I dont use the sounder to find fish I use it to determine reef structure under the boat couldn't care less if no fish are showing in fact I prefer it that way.

Anchor correctly, get a burley trail going & the fish will come to you, I do however leave the sounder on all day & when the fish do arrive I can tell you what they are & if they're going to bite.

Only because I've been fishing my spots that long I know whats down there.

Hi DC

300 Watts sounds about right

Moving the transducer sideways, is the width of the two screws about what you mean to centralize it? If so, I only need to drill one hole as I can use the existing left one, and moving it sideways trowards the engine on the same height also relatively moves it up.

As for all the settings, I'm still reading the book that came with it.

Thanks

Jack

[Dog Catcher]

Hi DC

300 Watts sounds about right

Moving the transducer sideways, is the width of the two screws about what you mean to centralize it? If so, I only need to drill one hole as I can use the existing left one, and moving it sideways trowards the engine on the same height also relatively moves it up.

As for all the settings, I'm still reading the book that came with it.

Thanks

Jack

Think pic below will explain what I meant.


With transducers the deeper into the water you have them the better the reading, that's what I was told bythe NSW Rep for Furuno when he came over to set up my sounder on my big boat.

I have a retractable sliding mount on that set up but bear in mind It's set up to read deep water out wide & can be a real pain in the butt if I 4get to lift it, thats when I cop the spray.

Also that boat has a pair of twin motors on it so I was not able to mount transducer closer to the V of the boat.


ps] B4 you think about sealing gap with sikaflex suggest you go back & read xtosea's reply about the angle of transducer, take the boat out a few times with transducer @ different angles till you find best readings then seal it.

Didn't have a real good close up pic of my wittle tinny to show you how transducer was mouted, but could prob get a couple of close up in a day or 2 [I dont keep my boats here]

This is the best I had & blew it up so not best quality pic but you should still be able to see how no part of transducer sits below the Hull as your one does.

[Martijnf]

Here's a pretty good tutorial from the lowrance site which explains the fish arches as well as generally running through sounder readings and settings.

http://www.lowrance.com/Support/Tips-and-Tutorials/Sonar-Tutorial/

[storms72]

Martin I would be suprised if that Lowrance Tutorial wasn't done by the guy Beats organised for the info talk the other night. Great guy and full of info on sounders and where and why to locate and use them.:ohhh yeah:

[A Pirate]

im out on the hacking tomorrow so ill see whati can find.
I like your brag mat where did you get that? and how $$

[Dog Catcher]

Here you go Jack I took that pic.

Bottom of transducer flush with bottom of hull

[jacobvz]

im out on the hacking tomorrow so ill see whati can find.
I like your brag mat where did you get that? and how $$

Gabe's on the princes highway in Sylvania, 20 bucks from memory.
It even starts at 0cm as well :beerchug:

Jack

[jacobvz]

Here you go Jack I took that pic.

Bottom of transducer flush with bottom of hull

Do you still get reading at plane as well? not that I'm fishing at that speed but I am interested in the bottom structure.

Jack

[quintrex101]

here is how my is set up

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z287/_southcoastin_/101_0228.jpg

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z287/_southcoastin_/100_09691.jpg

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z287/_southcoastin_/101_0229.jpg

[Dog Catcher]

Do you still get reading at plane as well? not that I'm fishing at that speed but I am interested in the bottom structure.

Jack

Yes Jack !

No probs @ all , pic was taken of my wittle tinny & if I wanted a better reading I could take my own advice & seal behind the transducer.

But like I said earlier I dont use the sounder @ speed

[jacobvz]

Thanks DC

[A Pirate]

Think pic below will explain what I meant.


With transducers the deeper into the water you have them the better the reading, that's what I was told bythe NSW Rep for Furuno when he came over to set up my sounder on my big boat.

I have a retractable sliding mount on that set up but bear in mind It's set up to read deep water out wide & can be a real pain in the butt if I 4get to lift it, thats when I cop the spray.

Also that boat has a pair of twin motors on it so I was not able to mount transducer closer to the V of the boat.

ps] B4 you think about sealing gap with sikaflex suggest you go back & read xtosea's reply about the angle of transducer, take the boat out a few times with transducer @ different angles till you find best readings then seal it.

Didn't have a real good close up pic of my wittle tinny to show you how transducer was mouted, but could prob get a couple of close up in a day or 2 [I dont keep my boats here]

This is the best I had & blew it up so not best quality pic but you should still be able to see how no part of transducer sits below the Hull as your one does.


Looking at your modified picture DC i would not be putting the transducer behind a chine you will get bubbles galore.

i have mine set up the same way Quintrex101 has except on a slide mount.

Ill post pics soon.

[Dog Catcher]

Not if you seal transducer back to the hull like I originally suggested.

Thats the whole idea of the sikaflex to illiminate the air bubbles.

No Cavity = No Bubbles

[A Pirate]

thats true but the bubbles coming from the bow as it hull moves through the water will rise to the high side of the chine so no matter if you use sickaflex to fill the gap you will still have bubble interference maybe more so.

[storms72]

Good point Pirate, set-ups like that give bad readings at speed, benefit of correctly set-up transducer which displays bottom accurately at speed allows those with combo or seperate GPS units to mark and go back to a spot that looks good on the sounder. Sounder I fitted to a friends boat a while ago gave fair readings at 3/4 throttle after on water fine tuning-makes covering large areas much easier when looking for reefs/structure in unfamiliar surroundings!:1yikes:

[A Pirate]

IMHO if you want a good bottom reading sounder that can read the sea bed at speed you need a through hull mounted transducer ie NAVMAN or get a throu-hull transducer modified to suit your sounder.

Thats what we have done to our work tenders, can read the depth and contoures at 30-40kts over 40kts its useless but then again who cares at 40+kts

[storms72]

The boat I was on topped out @ 32kts so was reading fine to bit over 20 which is more than acceptable for a LS4100

[A Pirate]

not bad, ill have to test my X52 Lowrance tomorrow when i take it out on the hacking.

See what i get, my set up is like Quintrex101's set up.

[quintrex101]

almost same sounder too

[Fed]

Jacobvz, you only need to move the transducer up, drill 2 new holes near the top of the existing transducer slide position and work from there.
It's hard to judge from the picture but it lookd like you need to go up about 8-10mm.
Don't move it sideways so it's behind a strake.

[Martijnf]

maybe this is just me but on Daniel's setup the transducer seems to sit much lower in the water than on Jack's boat.

Since he already has the bracket to lower the transducer with the current holes, wouldn't it be much simpler to lower it rather than raise it?

If that doesn't work he can always try raising it but if it works for Daniel and Pirate, why couldn't it work for Jack?

[Fed]

It's a different transducer Martin and I think the angle of the picture is making it look a lot lower than it really is.
Maybe the twerp could take some better pictures for us?
I think Dog Catcher could benefit by lowering his a few mm too, it's just trial and error to get them in the perfect position after you get the basics right.

[Dog Catcher]

thats true but the bubbles coming from the bow as it hull moves through the water will rise to the high side of the chine so no matter if you use sickaflex to fill the gap you will still have bubble interference maybe more so.

What you guys are forgetting is quite simple & this is also answering Fed's theory as well.

When your hull is cutting through the water that raised potion where I suggested the transducer be mounted behind & you call a chine [ ps dont think that is the correct term]

Anyway whatever its called that raised portion will disperse water off to the sides & since on tinny's there's another raised portion only about 20 cm's away.

Where are are all the bubbles going to be ?????????????????????

Dead smack in the centre of those raised portions, no different to how your boat puts off wash/bubbles off to the sides when it's underway.

Think you guys are losing the point of what sounders are meant to be used for how often are you fishing whilst doing 30 or 40 knots ????

Another thing dual beams were mentioned suggest next time when introducing something new into a thread you take the time to find out what it is you are on about instead of confusing people.

A beam is the angle the transducer reads @ you can get them anywhere from 8 degree's to 20 degree's I think from memory some game boats use multiple transducers pointed in various angles with various beams to locate baitbish etc whilst trolling.

Now if you're refering to duel frequency which alot of sounders do have then that's a different story all together your low frequency is for deep water & you still wont get a smooth reaading if you're travelling @ a great rate of knots.

If that doesn't work he can always try raising it but if it works for Daniel and Pirate, why couldn't it work for Jack?

Very simple Martijnf

Quinny isn't trying to use his sounder whilst travelling @ great speed & his setup is fine the deeper into the water the tranducer is the better the reading when you're moving slow trying to locate reef/fish

[Dog Catcher]

It's a different transducer Martin and I think the angle of the picture is making it look a lot lower than it really is.
Maybe the twerp could take some better pictures for us?
I think Dog Catcher could benefit by lowering his a few mm too, it's just trial and error to get them in the perfect position after you get the basics right.

Dog Catcher dosen't have probs with his sounder because he isn't interested in using it @ great speed Dog Catcher only drives his boats @ 10 knots

[Fed]

Yep, I'm a hat driver too. LOL!
My finder shows fish in 3 or 4 different sizes as well as solid or hollow pictures of the little suckers.
With a total display combination of 6 to 8 different fish it looks like a freaking aquarium on the screen. Beat that! HaHaHaHa!

[Dog Catcher]

Fed I'm running a 500 watt tranducer on my wittle tinny one of the reasons I get very good readings & dont have the need to lower the transducer.

[Martijnf]

DC, sounds like a good enough explanation to me :) thought it might be worth a shot since it would only be a matter of loosening some bolts but if that won't allow him to use the finder to scan the bottom while travelling then there's not much point.

[jacobvz]

What we are also forgetting is that I was getting good readings when it was lower in the water , but also a lot of spray going onto my engine, which I thought was bad and has been confirmed to be an undesirable situation.
When going slow my entire transducer will be under water no matter where I put it on the bracket and get good readings.

I am now trying to minimize the spray at high speeds, would be nice to have some bottom readings while doing so but not main concern.
I have raised the transducer so it is pretty much level with the bottom on lowest side and above the bottom on the high side (pretty much like the transducer on DC's boat). I have angled the back of the transducer down a notch and will give this a testrun next weekend. see if I get proper readings while cruising and no spray while wot

Jack

[A Pirate]

if you dont use the sounder at speed maybe raise up the transducer to minimise spray...or like me get platforms welded onto the rear of th boat to stop the water spraying up.