TRAILCRAFT ANSWERS RE PLATE.

[Haji]

I received the following answer from Trailcraft. Trust this will now put the question as to whether Trailcraft are a plate boat to bed.

Anyone want to argue further suggest you take it up with Trailcraft, I am more than satisfied with their answer.


ANSWER FROM TRAILCRAFT

Thanks for the heads up Haji, makes you wonder sometime why people do this sort of thing and what they get out of it. I can assure you that Trailcraft only uses plate aluminum on all of our boats. We purchase the hull sheets (bottom plates) from One Steel at Bibra Lake and it carries mill certification stamps and is grade “5083”. Some of our competitors purchase their aluminum in coil form (generally direct from overseas) and as such the product must be softer to be able to roll. This coiled product requires pressing to stiffen the sheets where as our pressings are ascetic only and really only there for the “Trailcraft” look.

Chris Dwyer
Inventory & Logistics Manager
Fax - (618) 9437 8008
Email - chrisd@trailcraft.com.au (chrisd@trailcraft.com.au)
Website - www.trailcraft.com.au (http://www.trailcraft.com.au)




INFO SENT TO TRAILCRAFT



Sent: Friday, 24 October 2008 8:50 PM

To: Chris Dwyer
Subject: Trailcraft plate






Chris
Following is copy of a post from a Sydney fishing website that has pretty wide circulation. The party submitting the post is spreading rumours about Trailcraft not using plate aluminium. To clear this issue up could you please confirm that your boats are manufactured using plate and the plate product number. Sorry to bug you with this however I feel sure you will not want false rumours being spread about your product.

Post by “Storms 72” today.

“Heard they really don’t have a plate bottom !!!! Maybe thick alloy counts as plate these days?”

I would like to put this one to bed in no uncertain way if for no other reason that I don’t want anyone bagging my boat. I will place you answer on the site to put an end to any false rumours. Alternatively you may want to respond by posting details in your own company name. If so, let me know and I will give you the details of the site. Feel free to call me on the mobile at any time if you want to discuss the above

[salty fil]

Geez i would hate to rob a bank with you Haji.

Did it really bother you that much????

Im shaking my head here thinking you really mustnt have much to do during the day mate.

What happened to the days of just telling someone "I dont really give a flying f*#k what you think of my boat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

One does not need to go to great lengths to defend themselves over something that is theirs and something they love.

Its your boat and thats all that matters.

[plastics]

so they are saying that they purchase plate sheets . quote ( bottom plates ) so the bottom is plate only thats how I read it , and the sides are pressed to give it that look, and my understanding is try press the true plat sheets and they will crack, so its plate bottom and not plate sides so its not in my understanding a true plate boat ( all round ). I am not being cocky here as i am interested so is this correct Hagi.

[moses]

so they are saying that they purchase plate sheets . quote ( bottom plates ) so the bottom is plate only thats how I read it , and the sides are pressed to give it that look, and my understanding is try press the true plat sheets and they will crack, so its plate bottom and not plate sides so its not in my understanding a true plate boat ( all round ). I am not being cocky here as i am interested so is this correct Hagi.
gotta go with u on this one plastics ive never seen a pressed plate boat

[Haji]

Hi Salty

Yep, it did bother me, I ordered the boat on the understanding that it was made from plate, with my understanding of plate being that it is a product that is much stronger than pressed sheet ally. So I wanted to know which was right.

As some of the comments flying around the site were quite adament that the boats are not made using plate I thought I might be able to prompt the Trailcraft people to give a definative answer and put it to bed once and for all, hence my approach to them. ( I have found the people that I have been in contact there to be very helpfull)

And I do think that getting the correct answers on matters such as this is of value to the members of the site. Particularly anyone who may be thinking of buying a new boat or selling an existing Trailcraft. After all, forcefull negative comments can affect the impression that people might get about a particular product or boat.

I hope the above comments will convince you that I am merely trying to get correct answers to a question that a lot of people seem to have an opinion on. As to having spare time, I semi retired last year so yes I probably have more time than people who work full time and I enjoy reading peoples posts.

Cheers

Haji

[Bees Knees]

It's how i described it and is still a very nice boat Haji. Just enjoy it :ranting2:

P.S. That letter from Trailcraft does not constitute as a photo ... I thought i was very clear on the Pics thing :rolling laughter:

Just put a pic up already :rolling laughter:

[moses]

i hope u didnt send the email naming storms to the guy that would be just stupid as u never know who u r talking to
the reson i say this is that its not hard to fund what site he is on for example http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=storms72&meta=

[storms72]

Ben who cares who he sends it too, this topic was dead and buried and haji just couldn't help himself and had to drag it back to life.... The reply from trailcraft probably upset Haji more he would've been hoping they would persue legal action against me! Geez haji I made a comment was corrected and accepted it-get over it!:rolling laughter::lol::rolling laughter:

[Bees Knees]

i hope u didnt send the email naming storms to the guy that would be just stupid as u never know who u r talking to
the reson i say this is that its not hard to fund what site he is on for example http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=storms72&meta=

Yep, good idea moses. Can never be too careful. So i checked mine on google and all i got was this

www.beeskneesmassage.com.au (http://www.beeskneesmassage.com.au)

Some blokes have all the luck :rolling laughter::rolling laughter:

[quintrex101]

Yep, good idea moses. Can never be too careful. So i checked mine on google and all i got was this

www.beeskneesmassage.com.au (http://www.beeskneesmassage.com.au)

Some blokes have all the luck :rolling laughter::rolling laughter:
:rolling laughter::rolling laughter::rolling laughter::rolling laughter:

[moses]

hey bees any available spots do they come with happy endings?:rolling laughter::rolling laughter:

[Bees Knees]

hey bees any available spots do they come with happy endings?:rolling laughter::rolling laughter:

They are always happy at my parlour Moses. Very relaxing :rolling laughter:

[moses]

:rolling laughter::rolling laughter::rolling laughter::rolling laughter::rolling laughter::rolling laughter::rolling laughter::rolling laughter::rolling laughter::rolling laughter::rolling laughter:

excellent when the next appointment?

[plastics]

Hi Salty

Yep, it did bother me, I ordered the boat on the understanding that it was made from plate, with my understanding of plate being that it is a product that is much stronger than pressed sheet ally. So I wanted to know which was right.

As some of the comments flying around the site were quite adament that the boats are not made using plate I thought I might be able to prompt the Trailcraft people to give a definative answer and put it to bed once and for all, hence my approach to them. ( I have found the people that I have been in contact there to be very helpfull)

And I do think that getting the correct answers on matters such as this is of value to the members of the site. Particularly anyone who may be thinking of buying a new boat or selling an existing Trailcraft. After all, forcefull negative comments can affect the impression that people might get about a particular product or boat.

I hope the above comments will convince you that I am merely trying to get correct answers to a question that a lot of people seem to have an opinion on. As to having spare time, I semi retired last year so yes I probably have more time than people who work full time and I enjoy reading peoples posts.

Cheers

Haji
Hi Hagi im getting confused so are you saying you ordered the boat thinking it was plate built , as i see it it is only the bottom that is plate.
if thats the case then I would be spewing at the maker , cos you thought from info from them that it was plate built.
So if i were to build a boat and put in a bit of plate I could call it a plate boat. in there responce to you they did not say it was plate built as was your understanding, only bottom sides are pressed .
so I think they gave you a bum stear.
Get up them Hagi

[fish fingers]

Very interesting Haji, on one hand you send me a private message saying you dont want to worry bout others comments then you come back with your e-mail to Trailcraft and appear to be proud of how you worded your e-mail.

You are a very difficult person to understand. I am not suprised you have attracted this trouble after having a look at the difficulties you have experienced on this site in the past.

[Dog Catcher]

Haji you & Trailcraft are are cheesing me off now & you know very well I dont like hearing porky's & let me tell you this thread has put nothing to rest if anything it has shown what a bunch of Bull Sh*ting Ar*e Holes Trailcraft are.

If that Chris Dwyer
Is the guy who turned his back on me @ the Boat show then you get him to register here & debate the make up of the Trailcraft Boats with someone who is not willing to accept the Bull Sh*t that trailcraft are spining.

Plastics hit the nail on the head & he knows nothing about plate the moron
Chris Dwyer goes on to critcise other company's for using coil sheet & having to press it for strength.

So you tell me is my earsight that bad or did Trailcraft pay a Mural artist big $$$'s to paint in the pressed effect into their sides ??????????

[fishinf]

here we go this is on like donkey kong:rolling laughter:

[Dog Catcher]

This Trailcraft plate debargo has been a sore spot with me for a couple of years now Maurice & it piss's me off when people want to take the word of a pen pushing salesman over someone who knows better.

It's piss'd me off that much in all this time I just visited the Trailcraft site for the very 1st time to get a look @ this beaut 80 ton toy break press peeps sem to go on about.

Couldn't find a pic of it anywhere just a pic of a CNC router & a whole lot of Bull Sh*t claims why their boats are so tough for gods sake their whole sub structure is made from 3mm, no full frames but they keep raving o0n about a 6mm transom with no info on the side skins whatso ever.

Let me tell you guys something, side skins measure 1200mm in width depending on the boat size, so in order for Trailcraft to even think about pressing those sides they would need a 600 mm throat on their press well I have only one thing to say about that

Ukken http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/8137/bullvj1.jpg

I had nightmares ordering my old press with a 300 mm throat anything more than that cant be gotten I did hear of one with a 450 mm throat only 2B used on light gauge materials & here you have trailcraft claiming to be folding 5083 plate with theirs ????

I'll garauntee you's those sides aren't pressed they are run through rollers & chooks if you think rollers can handle 5083 tensile strength alloy I called it for what it really is in the other thread plain 5005 sheet soft as & that's why it needs the pressed effect to give it it's strength.

[It'l do]

DC,
On the Trailcraft promotional video they show the side sheets being pressed. They press one rib at a time and from the sheet they are pressing the throat is 5 ribs so around 750mm. Very clear side view of the press.


Haji,
I have mentioned before that once my shed is made larger I would like to purchase a Trailcraft Trailblazer 5.7.

I know Storms comment was in relation to bottom but it puzzles me why Chris Dwyer states "We purchase the hull sheets (bottom plates) from One Steel at Bibra Lake and it carries mill certification stamps and is grade “5083”.
Why not mention the sides, floor, cab, etc?
The brochure states 3mm plate sides & 4mm plate bottom for the Trailblazer 540 & 570.

I have e-mailed Chris and will post his reply.

[It'l do]

The promo video is on their website.

http://www.trailcraft.com.au/media/video.aspx

At around 1min 50 sec you can see their press.

[Haji]

Guys, all I am trying to do is find out the truth about Trailcraft. Yes, I ordered the boat on the basis that it is a plate boat and yes I would be pissed off if it turned out that it wasn't hence the search for the FACTS, not opinion, not conjecture but cold hard Facts.

Trailcraft now have a vested interest in answering and putting the matter to bed once and for all. I understand that they intend to do that via this site. Or so they have told me.

I also understand that they have a 400 Tonne press and yes they do show the pressing process in their promo video. Very impressive.

One thing that I have learnt from my contacts with the very helpfull people at Trailcraft is that they use varying types of plate for different parts of their boats. hence the bottom is different from the sides (but still plate)

Another feature that I was not aware of is that plate comes in various 'Tempers" For instance, the Austral Bronze web site gives the specification for 5083 which is used for the bottom sheets of the Trailcraft boats, the specs include four "temper" options. viz:

O (annealed) 125 - 200 MPa
H112 125
H116 215
H321 215 - 295 MPa

The brochure also states that 5083 "is readily cold formable, as it is ductile" So much for plate cracking if you try to bend it.

I am still to find a definition as to what constitutes "Plate" versus any other form of ally product. Maybe Storms is right and the thickness of the product has something to do with it. Hopefully Trailcraft will answer that.

And finally, to my critics, if the subject is of no interest to you, why bother to read the posts? I think that I have made enough positive contributions to this site to allow me to express an opinion.

Cheers all

Haji

[jacobvz]

DC, one of Haji's questions has still never been answered and that is....

When does alloy become alloy plate?

as you seem to have a considerable knowledge on this, please explain what you think it is and than maybe this whole discussion/mud slinging competition can become what it was made to be. Finding the thruth on whether the trailcraft classifies as plate or not.

Just saying a sales rep is not to be trusted and has no clue without talking to the guy is a bit of a shortcut, I'm sure even in your book.

Jack

[plastics]

Guys, all I am trying to do is find out the truth about Trailcraft. Yes, I ordered the boat on the basis that it is a plate boat and yes I would be pissed off if it turned out that it wasn't hence the search for the FACTS, not opinion, not conjecture but cold hard Facts.

Trailcraft now have a vested interest in answering and putting the matter to bed once and for all. I understand that they intend to do that via this site. Or so they have told me.

I also understand that they have a 400 Tonne press and yes they do show the pressing process in their promo video. Very impressive.



The brochure also states that 5083 "is readily cold formable, as it is ductile" So much for plate cracking if you try to bend it.



Cheers all

Haji
I dont think any one is having a go at you Hagi in a previous post you said it is your ( apinion ) and I recon a few here were giving there's , its an apinion, but you took it the wrong way im sure everyone is happy for you and your new boat , and they wish they could get one.
but your attacking them , cos thats not what you want to hear, and I think there lagit questions weather the boat is Plate built. and not just part of it . as i said in a previous post I would be venting my anger at them not peeps here who might know something.

Again in there responce 5083 is readily coldformable , as it is ducktile . And you say so mutch for it cracking.
coldformable to me says you can form it eg bend . and not bend it to form ribs DOES NOT say press and form the side ribs. I would be asking them this Question .
Again this is only what I think and in no way is it a go at you. these are the Q. you should be saking them . cos clearly to me they havent said blue is blue and green is green. they have just a lot of crayons making pretty rainbows and peeps are buying just that. not getting the pot of gold at the end. In no way am i saying they dont have a good boat , but give people what you preach.
good luck and i hope you like the boat

[Fed]

I can assure you that Trailcraft only uses plate aluminum on all of our boats.
It seems to me that says it all.

[Bees Knees]

It seems to me that says it all.

Thanks for the heads up Haji, makes you wonder sometime why people do this sort of thing and what they get out of it. I can assure you that Trailcraft only uses plate aluminum on all of our boats. We purchase the hull sheets (bottom plates) from One Steel at Bibra Lake and it carries mill certification stamps and is grade “5083”.

But when you put it all together, it sounds misleading.. I'll wait till Trailcraft make thier official statement.

Haji, It's going to be a nice boat bud... Relax.

[xtosea]

Well he has just joined so he will reply i guess.

We all await the answer.

[plastics]

It seems to me that says it all.
Fed im not having a go at anyone especially Hagi . he's after the facts on the boat as he has ordered it, but the makers are not convincing me with there replys I am questioning there answeres not Hagi. So far all they have said is we order 5085 plate bottom It doesnt say for what part of boat .maybe bottom only side are thinner not 5085. and every different size boat might have thicker or thinner alloy . I think Hagi ordered the boat thinking on the info that they gave him thats its PLATE BUILT but the sides might not BE 5085. They should specify what parts are . By not doing this they are makeing you think that it is.

[Dog Catcher]

The promo video is on their website.

http://www.trailcraft.com.au/media/video.aspx

At around 1min 50 sec you can see their press.


Onya Freddy just what I was looking for when I visited their site.

Yes that press dose have a whopping Linda Love Lace I was surprised unfortunately they showed very little of the pressing process nor was I able to get a look @ the tooling used.

They wasted all the video telling us how wonderfull their boats are & that was the bloke in the vid who turned his back on me @ the show.

You were around the other day & I did show you the bottoms of the fuel tanks that I'd made you also saw the plate with a 1 mm crack the entire length of the fold.

Unfortunately my mate didn't have any radius tooling when I used his press to fold them now that plate was 4mm thick in 5083 H31 grade & I wasn't a dummy either I new it would crack do I used around 7 pieces of 1 mm gal sheet all folded over each other to give me around a 20 mm radius then I set up the biggest V bottom die that he had.

The V die was ample esp considering I was only folding the plate @ around 50 degree's yet it still cracked.

Not to worry the internal + around 3 mm of the fold was still good so I proceeded to fold the rest only because I knew where it cracked was where I could weld the mounting angle for the tanks so I got away with it.

Next time I dont 4 get the camera I'll take a pic of how it finished up.

DC, one of Haji's questions has still never been answered and that is....

When does alloy become alloy plate?


Well Jack apparantly it's when ever Trailcraft say it is.

What I'd like them to do is clarify grade used on the sides I dont give a sh*t about anything else they have to say, like I said in the other thread some peeps see a thick piece of material & automatically call it plate & that's not true.

Plate gets rated by it's temper & hardness not it's thickness & my whole arguement from the start has been they are not using the same material on their sides as they are on the hull if they were then they'd be putting to much stess back on the sides + it would create a nightmare pulling the bow of the sheet around when it was to be welded to the boat.

Those creas's give the sheet an unbending nature that's the whole purpose of them on alloy sheet the material is alot softer & can cope with that rolling efect but try doing the same with H31 & you'll know all about it.

Fed !

SFF the Goose has landed again

[Fed]

Let me tell you guys something, side skins measure 1200mm in width depending on the boat size, so in order for Trailcraft to even think about pressing those sides they would need a 600 mm throat on their press well I have only one thing to say about that

Ukken http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/8137/bullvj1.jpg

I had nightmares ordering my old press with a 300 mm throat anything more than that cant be gotten I did hear of one with a 450 mm throat only 2B used on light gauge materials & here you have trailcraft claiming to be folding 5083 plate with theirs ????

I'll garauntee you's those sides aren't pressed they are run through rollers & chooks if you think rollers can handle 5083 tensile strength alloy I called it for what it really is in the other thread plain 5005 sheet soft as & that's why it needs the pressed effect to give it it's strength.
Well DogCatcher after accusing Trailcraft of lying about the press they have and then going on to guarantee they don't press the sides at all I think you should admit you were wrong.
We all have seen the video so take it on the chin like a man.

I've never seen any claims from Trailcraft about folding 5083 plate, have you?

Plate gets rated by it's temper & hardness not it's thickness & my whole arguement from the start has been they are not using the same material on their sides as they are on the hull
I see a BackFlip coming up.:yahoo:

[Dog Catcher]

The promo video is on their website.

http://www.trailcraft.com.au/media/video.aspx

At around 1min 50 sec you can see their press.


Couldn't help myself Freddy & just had another looky @ the video.

Honestly not just trailcraft I think all the boatbuilders do the same thing.

Not one of them has got the common sense to incorporate water runoff slots on the frames where they get welded to the stringers..

Floor maybe welded in sealing it so as no water can get into the hull but peeps do mods to their boats & drill holes water can get in.

No cost involved in these slots & for the life of me dont know why these boat builders dont cut them out in trailcrafts case all it would take in a mod on the drawings & the CNC machine would do the rest.

Also @ the start of the vid that guy who turned his back on me goes on to say

Massive Safety Feature when Heading out into the open ocean

No good if you crack you hull is it cause from I can see there's no floatation built into the hull